logiclife
01-30 12:16 PM
we can have an org slogan below the logo that says
"High-skills employees for legal immigration".
OR
"Legal High-skills employees for immigration reform".
something like that. All orgs have slogan. Compete America(www.competeamerica.org) has a slogan "American employers for legal immigration".
"High-skills employees for legal immigration".
OR
"Legal High-skills employees for immigration reform".
something like that. All orgs have slogan. Compete America(www.competeamerica.org) has a slogan "American employers for legal immigration".
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rockstart
07-31 08:09 AM
The way education system is set here they always want to see 12+4+2 pattern. Now when you say 12+3+3 which adds to same it is true but you will have to get some proffessional degree evaluation service to break down your BS and MS degree by course and credit hours and prove that it is equivalent to US degree's. Also I am not sure what university / institute did you get your degrees from. In case they are well reputed then it will make the task a little easy.
Thanks for the response.
I have 3 year BS degree in computer science
&
3 Year MS degree in computer science. S0 total 6 years in the same field(computer).
Thanks.
Thanks for the response.
I have 3 year BS degree in computer science
&
3 Year MS degree in computer science. S0 total 6 years in the same field(computer).
Thanks.
H1B-GC
08-14 04:51 PM
A Call from DOL to your Employer is enough to start coughing all the Money he owes you. Make sure you have all the paper Trail as Evidence -Emails,Fax and etc..
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vxg
09-10 03:42 PM
Folks,
After more than an hour drive to a shitty town in northern mass Lawrence....no bottles please..cell phones be turned off...
Officer: Purpose
Me: Me approved my wife not
Officer: cases..
Me: Presented cases
Officer: Yes you are approved...your wife is pending
Me: Oh really that is a revelation....
Me: Why so?is she preadjudicated?
Officer: There could be many reasons...no she is not pre-adjudicated...
Me: What can we do to expedite as she is current
Officer: Nuthin ....I was loosing my temper now...
I said how long should one wait...I opened an SR I got a reply that they are doing additional review contact after 6 months..3 days later I get approval email...no one has a clue...the right hand does not know what the left is doing....my wife is kicking me on the foot asking in native language be happy with yours do u want to loose urs too...
Officer: gave a vague Monalisa smile...
Me: Well I guess that's it I didn;t know anything after driving 60 miles that I didn't know before...
On the way back got a mail from my attorney...he checked thru AILA and talked withan IO ...it seems her biometrics need to be redone...it is ordered and she shld get it in 2 weeks she will be current next month too...so keep fingers crossed...well my fingers are crooked and can't be straightened now...
Hope the info helps..
SoP
You do not need Biometrics uploaded for approval. My case was approved without it however they will only send cards after Biometrics are updated.
After more than an hour drive to a shitty town in northern mass Lawrence....no bottles please..cell phones be turned off...
Officer: Purpose
Me: Me approved my wife not
Officer: cases..
Me: Presented cases
Officer: Yes you are approved...your wife is pending
Me: Oh really that is a revelation....
Me: Why so?is she preadjudicated?
Officer: There could be many reasons...no she is not pre-adjudicated...
Me: What can we do to expedite as she is current
Officer: Nuthin ....I was loosing my temper now...
I said how long should one wait...I opened an SR I got a reply that they are doing additional review contact after 6 months..3 days later I get approval email...no one has a clue...the right hand does not know what the left is doing....my wife is kicking me on the foot asking in native language be happy with yours do u want to loose urs too...
Officer: gave a vague Monalisa smile...
Me: Well I guess that's it I didn;t know anything after driving 60 miles that I didn't know before...
On the way back got a mail from my attorney...he checked thru AILA and talked withan IO ...it seems her biometrics need to be redone...it is ordered and she shld get it in 2 weeks she will be current next month too...so keep fingers crossed...well my fingers are crooked and can't be straightened now...
Hope the info helps..
SoP
You do not need Biometrics uploaded for approval. My case was approved without it however they will only send cards after Biometrics are updated.
more...
PHANI_TAVVALA
01-02 01:55 PM
Adding to what Vinzak mentioned above, you will have hard time converting to F-1 since your I-140 is filed/approved. F-1 requires non-immigrant intent and filing I-140 shows immigration intent. There is a high chance your H1B to F1 COS wiil not be approved by USCIS.
ameryki
10-02 11:06 PM
murthy just sent out this info in his newsletter that went out today.
Delayed EADs - Ombudsman's Suggestions to Expedite
The current regulations on Employment Authorization Documents (EADs) require the USCIS to adjudicate EAD applications within 90 days. As many are aware, this does not always occur. The problem is compounded by the fact that it is no longer possible to obtain interim EADs at the local USCIS offices. Information on this matter was included in our previous article, available on MurthyDotCom, Interim EAD Problems at USCIS District Offices (Dec 14, 2007). The first CIS Ombudsman, Prakash , began making efforts on this matter that are continuing through the current CIS Ombudsman, Michael Dougherty. The Ombudsman's office released updated suggestions on September 19, 2008, for individuals who are experiencing EAD delays.
Option 1 : Call the NCSC
It is suggested that an individual first call the USCIS National Customer Service Center (NCSC) at 1.800.375.5283. It is important to note the date and time of the call, as well as the name / number of the person who answers the call. It is possible to explain that the EAD has been delayed beyond the 90 days permitted for processing, and ask for a "service request." This is supposed to result in issuance of the EAD or some other type of response within a week, according to the Ombudsman's update. Alternatively, it is possible to ask the customer service representative to request the EAD. This, too, should result in either receipt of the card or some other type of response within a week. The Ombudsman's update refers to the interim EAD, even though this is no longer issued by the local offices. At the Murthy Law Firm, it has been our experience that the requests described in the update primarily have resulted in the issuance of standard EADs.
Option 2 : INFOPASS Appointment
If the EAD has been delayed beyond 90 days, then it is possible to make an appointment at the local USCIS through the INFOPASS system. At that appointment, it is possible to request the EAD, even though EADs are not actually issued at the local offices. The local office should review the case for eligibility, and then forward the request to the USCIS service center where the case is pending. This should also result in a response or EAD issuance within a week.
It should be noted that, while the one-week estimate may be a bit optimistic, we at the Murthy Law Firm have found that this approach is generally successful. Our recommendation is to make the appointment a week or two in advance, for the 91st day after filing. The reason for this is that local offices often have waiting times for appointments and if one waits until the 90th day to make the appointment it may result in more delay while waiting for an available appointment time. As with the call to the NCSC, it is best to document the date and time of the appointment, as well as the name of the officer.
Option 3: Contact the Ombudsman if Other Options Do Not Work
If an individual has completed both options 1 and 2 above, and the EAD has not been issued, then a third option is to eMail the Ombudsman's office at cisombudsman.publicaffairs@dhs.gov. It is necessary to include the dates and times of the call to the NCSC, as well as the officer's identification information. Corresponding details on the INFOPASS appointment should also be provided.
Delayed EADs - Ombudsman's Suggestions to Expedite
The current regulations on Employment Authorization Documents (EADs) require the USCIS to adjudicate EAD applications within 90 days. As many are aware, this does not always occur. The problem is compounded by the fact that it is no longer possible to obtain interim EADs at the local USCIS offices. Information on this matter was included in our previous article, available on MurthyDotCom, Interim EAD Problems at USCIS District Offices (Dec 14, 2007). The first CIS Ombudsman, Prakash , began making efforts on this matter that are continuing through the current CIS Ombudsman, Michael Dougherty. The Ombudsman's office released updated suggestions on September 19, 2008, for individuals who are experiencing EAD delays.
Option 1 : Call the NCSC
It is suggested that an individual first call the USCIS National Customer Service Center (NCSC) at 1.800.375.5283. It is important to note the date and time of the call, as well as the name / number of the person who answers the call. It is possible to explain that the EAD has been delayed beyond the 90 days permitted for processing, and ask for a "service request." This is supposed to result in issuance of the EAD or some other type of response within a week, according to the Ombudsman's update. Alternatively, it is possible to ask the customer service representative to request the EAD. This, too, should result in either receipt of the card or some other type of response within a week. The Ombudsman's update refers to the interim EAD, even though this is no longer issued by the local offices. At the Murthy Law Firm, it has been our experience that the requests described in the update primarily have resulted in the issuance of standard EADs.
Option 2 : INFOPASS Appointment
If the EAD has been delayed beyond 90 days, then it is possible to make an appointment at the local USCIS through the INFOPASS system. At that appointment, it is possible to request the EAD, even though EADs are not actually issued at the local offices. The local office should review the case for eligibility, and then forward the request to the USCIS service center where the case is pending. This should also result in a response or EAD issuance within a week.
It should be noted that, while the one-week estimate may be a bit optimistic, we at the Murthy Law Firm have found that this approach is generally successful. Our recommendation is to make the appointment a week or two in advance, for the 91st day after filing. The reason for this is that local offices often have waiting times for appointments and if one waits until the 90th day to make the appointment it may result in more delay while waiting for an available appointment time. As with the call to the NCSC, it is best to document the date and time of the appointment, as well as the name of the officer.
Option 3: Contact the Ombudsman if Other Options Do Not Work
If an individual has completed both options 1 and 2 above, and the EAD has not been issued, then a third option is to eMail the Ombudsman's office at cisombudsman.publicaffairs@dhs.gov. It is necessary to include the dates and times of the call to the NCSC, as well as the officer's identification information. Corresponding details on the INFOPASS appointment should also be provided.
more...
GCanyMinute
08-23 12:23 PM
My PD is 01/2002, so you can imagine what I felt when the September bulletin was out (I am EB3 world with 485 already filed 08/2004)!
Now, I just called USCIS and they confirmed to me that indeed the Priority Date shows only on I-140, not I-485, so eveything is OK! Don't worry and be happy!
Wow!!! You must be very happpy!!!! Your GC is coming out hot of the oven huh?! That's great! Let us know when you get it 'cause things like that serve to pump up people in line!! :D
As for me 2 more months...please October Visa bulletin be nice to me! :rolleyes:
Hey thanks a lot for the info, good to know USCIS just confirmed that.
Now, I just called USCIS and they confirmed to me that indeed the Priority Date shows only on I-140, not I-485, so eveything is OK! Don't worry and be happy!
Wow!!! You must be very happpy!!!! Your GC is coming out hot of the oven huh?! That's great! Let us know when you get it 'cause things like that serve to pump up people in line!! :D
As for me 2 more months...please October Visa bulletin be nice to me! :rolleyes:
Hey thanks a lot for the info, good to know USCIS just confirmed that.
2010 Salma Hayek
reno_john
06-18 12:34 PM
U need to Say the last entry because H1B visa will tell you the stamping city. SO u can go ahead and tell them the port of entry u came to USA after H1B stamp, since u will be sending a copy of ur passport and they will see ur Canada visa and also the H1 visa with Canada as the date of issuance and that will be in the USCIS database, because they verify before they issue the H1 visa.
more...
bibs
05-09 06:09 PM
HI
I am planning to file a for a fresh EAD or new EAD.
I had filed 485 on 08/06/2007.
Now I have the following questions:
1) I am confused about the filing fee for EAD. Some say Filing fee is dependent on your 485 filign date.
For example, on usics website under 'Special Instructions' it says (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=73ddd59cb7a5d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D)
"If you filed a Form I-485, Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status, on July 30, 2007, or after, then no fee is required to file a request for employment authorization on Form I-765. You may file the I-765 concurrently with your I-485, or you may submit the I-765 at a later date."
Does that mean I donot have to pay any fee to USICS for EAD application?
2)What are the documents I have to submit along with I-485 receipt, I-94 copy & 2 photos?
On the I-765Instr document it says
"You must submit a copy of your Federal Government-issued identity document, such as a passport showing your picture, name and date of birth; a birth certificate with photo ID; a visa issued by a foreign consulate; or a national ID document with photo and/or fingerprint.The identity document photocopy must clearly show the facial feature of the applicant and the boigraphical information."
Which document I should provide as per the above statement?
3)What is the EAD application current processing time for Nebraska as I am in California and have to apply to NSC(Nebraska)?
Thanks in advance.
I am planning to file a for a fresh EAD or new EAD.
I had filed 485 on 08/06/2007.
Now I have the following questions:
1) I am confused about the filing fee for EAD. Some say Filing fee is dependent on your 485 filign date.
For example, on usics website under 'Special Instructions' it says (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=73ddd59cb7a5d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1RCR D)
"If you filed a Form I-485, Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status, on July 30, 2007, or after, then no fee is required to file a request for employment authorization on Form I-765. You may file the I-765 concurrently with your I-485, or you may submit the I-765 at a later date."
Does that mean I donot have to pay any fee to USICS for EAD application?
2)What are the documents I have to submit along with I-485 receipt, I-94 copy & 2 photos?
On the I-765Instr document it says
"You must submit a copy of your Federal Government-issued identity document, such as a passport showing your picture, name and date of birth; a birth certificate with photo ID; a visa issued by a foreign consulate; or a national ID document with photo and/or fingerprint.The identity document photocopy must clearly show the facial feature of the applicant and the boigraphical information."
Which document I should provide as per the above statement?
3)What is the EAD application current processing time for Nebraska as I am in California and have to apply to NSC(Nebraska)?
Thanks in advance.
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dealsnet
01-13 10:06 AM
Are you jocking Chandrakanth ? ;);););):eek::eek::cool::cool:
I think Lawyers have a system where they can send emails to the service centers in a particular format, the receiving software at USCIS automatically parses the email and assigns the case to officers.
Or, if it has been a long time since it is current try contacting the Ombudsman.
I think Lawyers have a system where they can send emails to the service centers in a particular format, the receiving software at USCIS automatically parses the email and assigns the case to officers.
Or, if it has been a long time since it is current try contacting the Ombudsman.
more...
GCapplicant
08-10 05:35 PM
I think this person is just making fun.Whatever he is stating here cant be true just creating confusion-It cant be India.
this is his first post too.
this is his first post too.
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rbalaji5
02-09 05:08 PM
Link - The link is not working..
Krishna/Sri, could you give me the correct link.
Thanks Krishna / Sri for very useful information. I will try this option before the other ones.
Thank you very much.
Krishna/Sri, could you give me the correct link.
Thanks Krishna / Sri for very useful information. I will try this option before the other ones.
Thank you very much.
more...
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roseball
03-31 02:38 AM
Hello frnds,
Just today, started new contract job at Clients place with big consulting firm on EAD. On my first day in the evening I got a call from consulting firm saying my back ground check have criminal record from state of Idaho. Till now I never ever was involved in any kind of criminal act. They asked me to stop going to work till it is resolved. consulting firm says all the states and federal agencies cleared me where I last lived, except state of idaho where i worked for 5 months.
Frnds please help! how should I resolve this issue. I have signed a 6 month rental lease, Left my H1B employer depending on this job. More over to all this we are expecting our first child and my wife doesnt have insurence. I was so happy I got this break but now this false check.
Please let me know if any one was in this situation and got out of it successfully.
Thanks,
Hydubadi.:confused:
Sorry to know about your situation. Nothing you can do at this point other than waiting to get the final report and know what the issue was in Idaho. You can ask them to give you a copy of the report.
Just today, started new contract job at Clients place with big consulting firm on EAD. On my first day in the evening I got a call from consulting firm saying my back ground check have criminal record from state of Idaho. Till now I never ever was involved in any kind of criminal act. They asked me to stop going to work till it is resolved. consulting firm says all the states and federal agencies cleared me where I last lived, except state of idaho where i worked for 5 months.
Frnds please help! how should I resolve this issue. I have signed a 6 month rental lease, Left my H1B employer depending on this job. More over to all this we are expecting our first child and my wife doesnt have insurence. I was so happy I got this break but now this false check.
Please let me know if any one was in this situation and got out of it successfully.
Thanks,
Hydubadi.:confused:
Sorry to know about your situation. Nothing you can do at this point other than waiting to get the final report and know what the issue was in Idaho. You can ask them to give you a copy of the report.
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ashshef
09-11 05:49 PM
There seems to be two waiting with PD 2003??? who are these people and what is their issue?? please let us know what your problem is? People with PD early 2005 are being aproved and you are still waiting? does not make any sense. You need to do something.
It's possible they are porting cases, and if the port was recent, it might take a little more time to process. Would be nice to hear from them...they might be the same folks who have posted on the other thread.
I think a lot of people who port don't wanna write as it causes some folks on these forums to start cursing.
It's possible they are porting cases, and if the port was recent, it might take a little more time to process. Would be nice to hear from them...they might be the same folks who have posted on the other thread.
I think a lot of people who port don't wanna write as it causes some folks on these forums to start cursing.
more...
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Berkeleybee
04-08 01:29 PM
I guess everything needs to go through the house conference. However there is a much better chance to attach it to the PACE act since Sensenbrenner may not be sitting in that conference at all. PACE act goes to this committe:
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Subcommittee on Education and Early Childhood Development
It's none of the Judical committe's business. It will be much better if the Senate just drops the contraversial immigration bill and start to work on this bill. Attaching EB to immigration bill is really dangerous and may just futher delay everything. So pushing the immigration bill may not be a wise thing for us to do.
Don't forget that the House (Anti) Immigration Caucus has 92 members -- be assured that if not Sensenbrenner it will be another equally virulent member. Also, conference committees are nominated by the leader of the house -- nothing to stop them from nominating anyone they want.
Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Subcommittee on Education and Early Childhood Development
It's none of the Judical committe's business. It will be much better if the Senate just drops the contraversial immigration bill and start to work on this bill. Attaching EB to immigration bill is really dangerous and may just futher delay everything. So pushing the immigration bill may not be a wise thing for us to do.
Don't forget that the House (Anti) Immigration Caucus has 92 members -- be assured that if not Sensenbrenner it will be another equally virulent member. Also, conference committees are nominated by the leader of the house -- nothing to stop them from nominating anyone they want.
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kartikiran
05-28 03:21 PM
I did it on May 1st and did it again on May 20th.
For any agenda to be pushed forward funds are needed.
Even just to run a portal like this to give us an opportunity to discuss our issues at a single source also costs.
For any agenda to be pushed forward funds are needed.
Even just to run a portal like this to give us an opportunity to discuss our issues at a single source also costs.
more...
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vinabath
03-24 03:22 PM
LOL - Yeah, you better grow a beard, cross the border and move to Mexico. You have been identified as a bad boy in these parts! :cool:
You know what my beard already started growing.
You know what my beard already started growing.
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MAEB2TR
09-04 10:34 AM
This is what I found in another thread:
"06/02/2007: NSC Procedure of Transfer of Pending I-1485 From Current Approved Underlying I-140 Petition to New I-140 Petition
� This posting involves aliens who are waiting for the I-485 applications where the underlying I-140 petition was approved but due to retrogression, I-485 cannot be approved. Most of these cases are EB-3 cases. When the same alien obtains an EB-2 labor certification approval through the same employer or a different employer and the visa number is available for the EB-2 for him or her, he should be eligible for filing another I-485 application based on the visa number available EB-2 I-140 petition. This can be achieved either by concurrent I-140/I-485 filing or if the new EB-2 I-140 has already been approved, by filing of stand-alone I-485 application.
� However, in the foregoing situation, the Pearson Memo of 2000 allows the alien to transfer the pending I-485 application from the existing underlying approved I-140 petition to a new EB-2 I-140 petition such that the alien does not have to file another I-485 application to use the second I-140 petition. For this to happen, two conditions must be met: (1) The existing underlying I-140 petition (most likely EB-3) must have been approved before the I-485 transfer is requested. (2) Secondly, the visa number must be "current" for the new I-140 petition (most likely EB-2) before the I-485 transfer is requested. Inasmuch as the visa number is current, the pending I-485 application that suffer from the visa number retrogression can be transferred to the nex I-140 petition.
� According to the Nebraska Service Center, people should take the following procedure to request such transfer of pending I-485 application from one I-140 petition to another I-140 petition:
o Request for Transfer of Pending I-485 Application to a Newly Filed I-140 Petition That Has Visa Number Current: In this situation, he/she is filing a new I-140 petition (probably EB-2 with visa number "current") with the agency to transfer the pending I-485 application and attach it to the new I-140 petition. The NSC states that if he/she files such new I-140 petition, he/she should use "large, bold print in the cover letter or with a separate, brightly colored cover page and notation 'Inter-file I-140 with Pending I-485' and include the Receipt/File Number of Pending I-485 Application, both on the Envelope and Cover Letter.
o Request for Transfer of Pending I-485 Application to Already Approved New I-140 (most likely EB-2 category): NSC asks to print the attached over sheet on brightly colored paper, and submitting it with a cover letter providing the following Information:
Name of 485 applicant
Name of I-140 petitioner (employer)
I-485 Receipt Number
"A" Number of the 485 applicant
Prior I-140 petition (1) Receipt Number, (2) Filing Date, and (3) Approval Date
New I-140 to be inter-filed
Statement requesting new I-140 be inter-filed with the pending I-485 application.
"06/02/2007: NSC Procedure of Transfer of Pending I-1485 From Current Approved Underlying I-140 Petition to New I-140 Petition
� This posting involves aliens who are waiting for the I-485 applications where the underlying I-140 petition was approved but due to retrogression, I-485 cannot be approved. Most of these cases are EB-3 cases. When the same alien obtains an EB-2 labor certification approval through the same employer or a different employer and the visa number is available for the EB-2 for him or her, he should be eligible for filing another I-485 application based on the visa number available EB-2 I-140 petition. This can be achieved either by concurrent I-140/I-485 filing or if the new EB-2 I-140 has already been approved, by filing of stand-alone I-485 application.
� However, in the foregoing situation, the Pearson Memo of 2000 allows the alien to transfer the pending I-485 application from the existing underlying approved I-140 petition to a new EB-2 I-140 petition such that the alien does not have to file another I-485 application to use the second I-140 petition. For this to happen, two conditions must be met: (1) The existing underlying I-140 petition (most likely EB-3) must have been approved before the I-485 transfer is requested. (2) Secondly, the visa number must be "current" for the new I-140 petition (most likely EB-2) before the I-485 transfer is requested. Inasmuch as the visa number is current, the pending I-485 application that suffer from the visa number retrogression can be transferred to the nex I-140 petition.
� According to the Nebraska Service Center, people should take the following procedure to request such transfer of pending I-485 application from one I-140 petition to another I-140 petition:
o Request for Transfer of Pending I-485 Application to a Newly Filed I-140 Petition That Has Visa Number Current: In this situation, he/she is filing a new I-140 petition (probably EB-2 with visa number "current") with the agency to transfer the pending I-485 application and attach it to the new I-140 petition. The NSC states that if he/she files such new I-140 petition, he/she should use "large, bold print in the cover letter or with a separate, brightly colored cover page and notation 'Inter-file I-140 with Pending I-485' and include the Receipt/File Number of Pending I-485 Application, both on the Envelope and Cover Letter.
o Request for Transfer of Pending I-485 Application to Already Approved New I-140 (most likely EB-2 category): NSC asks to print the attached over sheet on brightly colored paper, and submitting it with a cover letter providing the following Information:
Name of 485 applicant
Name of I-140 petitioner (employer)
I-485 Receipt Number
"A" Number of the 485 applicant
Prior I-140 petition (1) Receipt Number, (2) Filing Date, and (3) Approval Date
New I-140 to be inter-filed
Statement requesting new I-140 be inter-filed with the pending I-485 application.
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gc2
12-03 03:15 PM
why would you ask about unemployment for a GC application based on employment category or so i assume.
braindrain
09-02 11:45 PM
I am planning to sponsor visitors visa for my parents and and based on the available documentation I need to submit my birth certificate as part of the required docs.
My parents name in the their passport is not exactly the same as in my birth certificate. The last name is good and the issue is with the first and middle names not being exactly the same. Will this be an issue when they go for VISA. Should I get the names corrected in my parents passport before applying for VISA.
If we need to correct the names in the passport in India, does anyone have an idea of the process and how long it might take.
Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.
My parents name in the their passport is not exactly the same as in my birth certificate. The last name is good and the issue is with the first and middle names not being exactly the same. Will this be an issue when they go for VISA. Should I get the names corrected in my parents passport before applying for VISA.
If we need to correct the names in the passport in India, does anyone have an idea of the process and how long it might take.
Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.
vxg
08-31 02:03 PM
Best thing is to apply AP online. I did the same and got the FP notice 2nd time. Planning to do it again this year end.
kanaka
The FP done for AP does not apply to I-485, the two are separate.
kanaka
The FP done for AP does not apply to I-485, the two are separate.
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